PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

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GuyD73
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PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby GuyD73 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:54 am

So today the childless, unelected dictator May will go about destroying our children's future. No-one voted for Brexit at any cost, the tories have broken multiple manifesto promises including remaining in the single market, so they have no legitimacy. An MPs primary duty is to vote in the way they consider to be in the best interests of the country and many including Jane Ellison and Stephen Hammond, are failing in that responsibility, putting party and career before country. It is quite right that Parliament should have a meaningful vote and the commons needs to know how strongly the public feels about this. Please email them, tweet them and march on the 25th. Is anyone else with youngish kids going? (mine are nearly 3 and 4) #Resist! :)

dudette
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby dudette » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:54 pm

Childless? Why does that disqualify her to make these decisions? And please don't call her a dictator - you're just devaluing the suffering of millions of people at the hands of real dictators. As I said on your other post, the Tories were on a three-line whip - voting against it (Ken Clarke was the only Tory who did) would have been career suicide as well as pointless as Labour were also on a three-line whip.There was no way the government would lose.

misty32
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby misty32 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:53 pm

Governments should not be able to threaten their ministers with the sack should they vote against them, that is not democratic. Imagine if your boss threatened to fire you should you disagree with his views? Ministers are there to have their own say and represent that of their constituents. Jane Ellison has consistently voted against the views of her constituents (even before the referendum), on the premise of sticking to the Tory manifesto - the same manifesto that her boss and the Chancellor broke last week with the tax hikes for the self employed (and are now possibly backtracking on since the uproar). Not setting a very good example are they, I guess when it suits. As has been said many times now, Brexit was a process of agreeing to buy a house without having viewed it. People should have the right to go see that house and then decide, thats why people are allowed to back out of things, a cooling period if you like. As Nick Clegg says today, her actions are displaying qualities of callousness (Heseltine), authoritarian and single mindedness. She cant threaten me so I'm with Guy here and will be signing and marching.

dudette
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby dudette » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:09 pm

Governments, both Tory and Labour, have always sacked ministers for defying a three-line whip. You may not like it but it's the way politics works in this country I'm afraid.

misty32
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby misty32 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:11 pm

I hear you, I'm absolutely not disagreeing. In situations like this it is catastrophic which is why I agree with Guy in that, like the wording or not, I feel like we are being held more and more under dictatorship with Theresa May. She is on a one woman (surrounded by her disciples) mission to do this alone and its plain wrong. I dont think she's qualified at all, look at her career history and performance.

windmill26
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby windmill26 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:09 pm

I agree with both GuyD73 and misty32.I find the unelected Theresa the Appeaser single minded,unqualified and out of her depth. We are marching the 25th and we are taking our 10 years old with us.

denshort
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby denshort » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:12 pm

I will be tweeting, e-mailing, writing etc. as I do not support Theresa May on this but I find it incredibly insensitive and hurtful to refer to her as 'childless' in this derogatory fashion.

People are childless for all sorts of reasons, it doesn't automatically mean they don't want to protect the world for future generations. I find it a really nasty generalisation to make on an extremely emotive and heartbreaking subject.

Denwand
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby Denwand » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:23 pm

"Childless"
"Unelected"
"Dictator"
"So (the Tories) have no legitimacy."
"Theresa the Appeaser" ( a name neither amusing nor apt btw)

Well the standard of this debate certainly falls well below a 5th form (say year 11 in modern parlance) debate.

In fact as a remainer myself I am ashamed that people can spurt such puerile rubbish on a public forum...anyone would think you're talking about the North Korean government...

There's no real answer to such piffle other than to say it's straight out of "Citizen Smith"

"Power to the People!!!"

Image

windmill26
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby windmill26 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:34 pm

What about "Brexit mean Brexit" then?

GuyD73
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby GuyD73 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:04 am

Dudette / Denshort, I'll address the point about the 'childless' FACT first. I completely agree, it doesn't in any way diminish her ability or judgement and I NEVER SAID THAT did I? It is also neither derogatory nor a generalisation, it's a FACT.

It's not my wish to upset anyone who isn't a parent but I think it's fair to argue that having no offspring, she MIGHT NOT care QUITE AS MUCH about our children's ability to work and live freely across Europe in future. I'm not saying everyone without kids doesn't care about the future, of course not, but it's a reasonable point to make. She'll be dead in 20 odd years time, my children will have to live with her mess a great deal longer than that.

dudette
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby dudette » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:46 am

When you attach it to the word 'dictator' you are using it in a derogatory way. Your argument that because she's older and doesn't have children somehow disqualifies her from making decisions about the country's future is deeply insulting. On the same basis why not take the vote away from childless older people as they will also soon be dead and have no vested interest in the future?

GuyD73
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby GuyD73 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:09 am

You're trying to twist my words Dudette, so let me clarify. While it might be an emotive word, I use the word dictator dispassionately to describe Mrs May's shameful attempts to usurp Parliamentary process - thank god for Gina Miller, she'll probably bring another action when the time comes and win again, though sadly the taxpayer will pick up the government's bill for losing. And neither did I say it disqualifies her, I just said she might care a little less. Neither is it accurate to try and extrapolate this view as you have, everyone deserves a vote, though perhaps 16 and 17 year olds, those with most to lose from this madness, were denied one.

dudette
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby dudette » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:12 am

"...childless, unelected dictator" Are these the words I'm trying to twist? I'm not disagreeing with your right to complain about how Theresa May has been governing and in particular her handling of Brexit, I'm just saying that your use of the word 'childless' to attack her and your suggestion that as she's older she has less of a vested interest in the future, smack to me of sexism and ageism. Whether or not she has children is of no more relevance to her job than President Obama's skin colour was to his. Instead of telling me I'm twisting your words, you should be apologising for using this inflammatory language on a public forum. Instead you're just digging yourself deeper into the hole, and insulting millions of childless women, by suggesting that women without children might "care a little less" about the future.

juliantenniscoach
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby juliantenniscoach » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:57 am

Sorry but you should take a deep breath and read your post again, you'll find that Dudette and Denwand are absolutely right. This post (and the other re Ellison) is riddled with inaccurracies, assumptions and comments which are easily perceived as insulting and offensive.

I'll assume you were really angry about the political situation when you posted, but it doesn't excuse it. You're in danger of coming across as the "we know better than you" constituency that drove the Brexit voters to the polls.

And just in case you assume I am a Mail reading Leave voter.............I voted Remain.

windmill26
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Re: PLEASE everyone, tweet your MP and ask for a meaningful vote.

Postby windmill26 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:27 pm

".... though perhaps 16 and 17 year olds, those with most to loose from this madness, were denied one" but any Commonwealth Citizen here on a student visa or a 2 year working holiday visa could vote freely! Go figure!


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