Party wall surveyor basement excavations

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KittyKat21
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Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby KittyKat21 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:52 pm

Hello all - wanted to know if anyone can recommend a party wall surveyor (PWS) specialising in basement excavations in Wimbledon area.

We haven't received a notice yet but neighbour's planning permission has been passed so wanted to do some research in advance of appointing a PWS. New neighbours haven't been upfront and didn't show us plans prior to planning application, despite saying they would...and then weren't happy when we objected. So not a good start to the whole neighbourly relations - but anyway, we need to deal with the next steps now. We would want to appoint our own surveyor due to the complexity of the works involved just to ensure proper "policing" of the project.

Any recommendations would be appreciated. I've seen some older postings so was just looking to see if anyone has more recent / current recommendations.

Many thanks in advance
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TreacleBell
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby TreacleBell » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:52 pm

They are independent so why not use the same one as your new neighbours?
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Pud1
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby Pud1 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:14 pm

Better to have your own surveyor.
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LP73
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby LP73 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:26 am

Legally PWS HAVE to be independent when acting for both parties so it is safe and actually easier for all concerned to us the same one.
We did a basement and used a wonderful guy called Ramesh and now our neighbours have gone onto use him for their works.
He acted for us first and always remained professional advising both sides equally.
Ramesh can be contacted on 02089301694 and 07766572430 email ramesh@siproperty.co.uk
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pie81
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby pie81 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:19 am

I would generally agree with having a single joint surveyor rather than appointing your own (I have heard that having two can actually drag things out and make the works longer which is not in your interests, as well as obviously being a pain for your neighbours), but can understand your nervousness if you think the neighbours have already been a bit underhand.

How about suggesting a compromise to your neighbours. A single joint surveyor BUT it must be one that you have picked, not one they have picked?

As to recommendations - Ivan Coffey is very experienced and thorough. Definitely go via a recommendation and not those party wall firms that send you unsolicited mail!
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Ensoul.co.uk
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby Ensoul.co.uk » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:35 am

Hi KittyKat21, we specialise in designing and project managing basements for clients and know a very good PWS, let me know if i can help with an intro, all the best, Mike Lander, Director, www.ensoul.co.uk
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KittyKat21
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby KittyKat21 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:02 pm

Thank you all for your msgs - sorry for the late reply.

I agree PWS are meant to be independent but from feedback received from people who have used agreed surveyors (both on this website and externally), the recommendation is to have a separate surveyor especially for something as complex as a neighbouring basement project. Also, I personally would feel more comfortable appointing my own surveyor given the current situation with the neighbours.

Thanks again for your suggestions!
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MrsOctober
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby MrsOctober » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:22 pm

Absolutely definitely appoint your own surveyor, especially for a basement project.
Of course all PWS are independent as they act for the Act itself but like anything, it is open to interpretation. It can actually be far worse for neighbourly relations if you share a PWS.
When it comes to a basement dig, the proposed underpinning sequence needs very careful scrutiny. You'll be surprised how many people don't know that there are different ways to underpin your house.
Your neighbour's basement company may try and do a progressive underpinning sequence because it's quicker, simpler and therefore cheaper but a hit-and-miss underpinning sequence is proven better for the structural integrity of the building - you'll get less movement and less cracking. A progressive underpinning sequence actually builds up stress along the building and causes the house to twist.
Our PWS appointed a checking engineer who discovered that the basement company digging next door were intending on the cheaper underpinning method and forced them to do it properly. Unfortunately, the rather arrogant basement company next door sneakily carried out the underpinning their way and the house is twisting as a result. The first clue was when our front door wouldn't open in week3 of the dig. The whole party wall has dropped, causing serious damage to masonry on our side and we will need extensive redecoration and a new front door and frame. Our PWS's engineer came and did an inspection, discovered the deviation from the agreed sequence and shut down the dig. Our PWS said he would refuse to act for both sides on a basement dig as it is never straight forward and he would get bent out of shape trying to keep both parties happy.

Incidentally, we shared a PWS (a different one to the one we have now) when our neighbour did their side return. The build had lots of problems and the PWS didn't like confrontation so didn't really act robustly on our behalf, resulting in us not getting properly compensated for the damage done. To save neighbourly relations, we let it go but it could have all gone really sour between us and our neighbours had we not swallowed the costs.
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davethomas99999
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby davethomas99999 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:21 pm

After going through the Party Wall process with my adjoining owners I felt it necessary to share my experiences with others who are about to commence a development and in that situation the Party Wall etc Act 1996 will apply.
Most readers of this post will have little or no knowledge of Party Walls or how this process can affect your finances.

I hope to explain and share all elements of the 1996 Act and draw the public’s attention to pitfalls and how to avoid costly mistakes.

You need a Surveyor but how to find one? Google, recommendations, yellow pages etc its all hit and miss, but you have to start somewhere so invite three quotations from local firms. If you live in London, its common sense to use a London Surveyor and not one from Bristol or the midlands simply because your Surveyor needs to be at hand if problems develop.

You will as I did become confused with the differences in the quotations for what is a simple process once understood. I had two adjoining owners and my development was a loft conversion in SW London. The quotations came in £800, £1100 and £2200 all for the same job. Confusing? Very!

Not all Surveyors are the same, but it appears there are two distinct levels of Surveyor those is formal qualifications such as MRICS, BSc, MCIOB etc all graduate level and then those with lesser or no formal qualifications but tend to use the letters MFPWS after their name- this is membership of the Faculty of Party Wall Surveyors, it’s a three day course that is almost open to all. This normally accounts for the vast difference in quotations submitted.

But to be clear there is no requirement for a Party Wall Surveyor to have any formal qualifications at all apart from a good understanding of the 1996 Act and buildings. So should you use a MFPWS or go for the expensive RICS Surveyor? Readers may be surprised to hear that my experience with a RICS Surveyor ended up with his dismissal for absolute gross negligence, he failed to serve the Notices as required, he failed to keep me informed, he failed in communications with my neighbours Surveyors and I had to become a go between. He initially quoted £2200 which seemed fair at the time, but sent me various emails with increasing estimates, projecting to £3200, enough was enough and I dismissed him. He then invoiced my for his fee, I rejected his invoice and made a formal complaint to RICS which I won. He never received a penny and got a serious reprimand from RICS.

I employed a second Surveyor, not a RICS but he had a BSc and seemed very knowable, he had to start the entire process de novo. He served Notices, met with the other Surveyors and undertook the vital schedule of condition and finally raided the Awards having both adjoining owners Surveyors sign them. All went well and the development is complete. His fee was £1100.00 + VAT

So what did I learn? The Party Wall process is actually very straight forward and using the right Surveyor is essential, don’t worry too much about formal qualifications more applicable is experience.

So my guide to picking a Surveyor is follow this check list and hopefully you won’t go wrong:

1. Make sure he’s London based.
2. Ask to see his professional indemnity insurance certificate.
3. Ask for a breakdown of this fees. £800.00 per adjoining owner seems very fair and reasonable.
4. Don’t engage a RICS Surveyor, they are not needed for Party Walls there is no real technical involvement.
5. Make sure he’s VAT registered if not in all probability he’s a chancer a cowboy looking for a quick buck, how can any surveying practice turn over less than £84,000 which is the VAT threshold.
6. If the above are not all satisfied ask for references.

Happy to answer questions.
Good luck!!
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davethomas99999
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby davethomas99999 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:26 pm

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Tarquin.Carter
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby Tarquin.Carter » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:43 pm

To throw my experience into the equation. Whilst Dave clearly has some good points, I would raise some concerns.

Firstly, in appointing an agreed surveyor for such a complex project. Basement conversions manifest in some form of damage some 80% + of the time and having two surveyors working towards a resolve will clearly outweigh the experience and knowledge of one (twice as much funnily).

Secondly, I would be concerned about obtaining a fixed fee in this instance due to as mentioned the complexity by nature of a basement conversion. There will be a range of professionals that may be called upon including structural engineers and designers, this all requires a level of diligence and indeed enough time to co-ordinate and manage.

Having one surveyor to rely on in my opionion is too risky as they indeed become, judge jury and executioner. If there is an air of difference between the two surveyors you also have recourse from a third surveyor, who are very well versed and experienced practitioners.

Also, to put a figure on a adjoining owners fees without first at least determining the very nature of the proposed plans and works is nieve. If said surveyor spends 35 hours including several site inspections at an agreed £800 this will amount to £9 odd an hour...the chances of the agreed surveyor cutting corners or deploying junior staff with no tangible experience is highly likely, all at the detriment to the neighbours in question, very much against the spirit of the Act.

To say there is no technical involvement is also a cause for concern. Party wall surveyors are required to utilise their specialist construction knowledge and understanding of the Act to resolve disputes. Building technology, modern methods of construction and indeed renovation of period properties certainly require a technical level of building and construction expertise, coupled with a requirement of understanding the the relevant law on par with legal practitioners.

It is for that reason that I for one would definently not engage a bargain budget party wall practitioner to oversee professional and legal inactment of legislation over ones most valuable asset.

My experience; 20 years building and construction, 12 years of part time construction and building surveying formal education including land and contract law, and a first class honours in RICS accredited Building Surveying degree (who so happened to undertake their major project in Party Wall).

I have seen too many cowboys, too many fancy websites, too much inexperience in the field of Party Wall surveying.... rather than asking about liability insurance (virtually impossible that this would ever come into play unless you was hell bent on causing carnage!), I would be more focused on ones construction experience, party wall knowledge, and previous appointments.

I can recite the Party Wall etc. Act 1996, and I have been involved with minor through to major works both in a hands on and managerial capacity.

Go recommended, go local. If you are based in and around North London, I would be happy to offer free impartial advice. I also currently assist several individuals on and pro bono basis across the UK.

I also specialise in providing non profit and social housing providers with a personalised service, which I am very proud of. Contact me by email at Info@tksurveyinggroup.co.uk or through our Web portal at http://www.tksurveyinggroup.co.uk if you have any questions.
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Vernet66
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby Vernet66 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:14 pm

I realise this thread is a year old but I am looking for people willing to talk about their experience of a party wall dispute to an audience of surveyors . Not about the neighbours but about the party wall surveyors who handled it (for good or bad). As much as I would like to be proven wrong, it seems to me that owners are sometimes treated as a commodity and the true nature of dispute resolution forgotten. If you are willing to travel to London, please get in touch via the contact page of the Party Wall Academy website.
www. thepartywallacademy.org.uk
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Suebe
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby Suebe » Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:40 am

Stephen cook at cook steed associates is excellent I used him as a party wall expert Definitely do not share an advisor with your neighbour Stephen would be perfect for you and is in Battersea
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Suebe
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Re: Party wall surveyor basement excavations

Postby Suebe » Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:41 am

Stephen cook at cook steed associates is excellent I used him as a party wall expert Definitely do not share an advisor with your neighbour Stephen would be perfect for you and is in Battersea
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